White Guys and Guns: An Interview with Shane Claiborne

White Guys and Guns: An Interview with Shane Claiborne

A reflection by Jon Huckins 

Q: You do a lot of advocacy work around the issue of Gun Violence. Why does it matter that Christians care about this? 

Shane: First of all, there are so many lives at stake. Every day, we’re losing more than 100 lives to guns. In fact, we had to change the statistic from when we wrote [Beating Guns] from 90 a day to 100 a day, and now it’s 110 per day. It’s the largest cause of death of all of our children in America. For many years, guns were the largest cause of death for African American children, who were 10 times more likely to die than white kids, but last year, it became the biggest cause of death – above cancer, car accidents, anything else. So that’s why this matters, right? 

Not just kids, but as we see in Buffalo, so many other places, our elders – guns, bullets don’t discriminate. And every person’s made in the image of God. There’s nothing more valuable than life and guns are really crushing those lives every single day. In my lifetime, we’ve lost more lives to guns in the US than in all of the casualties of all of America’s wars combined. It’s just mind boggling, right?

So that’s why we say you can’t be pro-life and ignore gun violence.

I think the gun and the cross give us two very different versions of power. And one says, “I’m willing to die.” And the other says, “I’m willing to kill.” And there comes a point where you can’t serve two masters.

There is a common thread that runs through most of these mass shootings; almost all of them are done by men. And, the majority of those men are white. What’s up with that?

Shane: We have a problem that goes back earlier than guns. I think that men, women, all human beings, are all equally fallen and broken and sinful. We’re also equally made in the image of God and capable of holiness and compassion. But when you look at history, dudes have done a lot of damage. I don’t know that it’s a coincidence that the first murder was between Cain and Able, a brother killing his own brother. But as you look at the violence in scripture, even what can be seen as sanctified violence, it’s often at the hands of men – not exclusively, but overwhelmingly. So it’s not exclusively a male problem. But when you look at homicides, I think upwards of 90 percent of homicides in America are done by men. Most of the mass shooters in the high profile mass shootings are men. There are exceptions but they are outliers; they are anomalies. 

In many patriarchal societies, women and men don’t have access to the same capacities to do damage. But I also think there is something sociologically and culturally – we are kind of socialized into this. The gun marketers know that. We’ve got an ad in Beating Guns from Bushmaster that says, “Here’s your man card.” It’s literally a rite of passage to manhood to own a gun. 

When we see some of these armed expressions of armed militia and white supremacists, some of this has deep roots in our history. But it also has a current manifestation that’s very alarming because as the demographics of our country are changing and white men have less of that power they’ve always monopolized, there’s a fragility and fear that expresses itself in some really scary ways. So we find that arming ourselves – even that expression “Make America Great Again – is about making America white again or going back rather than going forward in a diverse, pluralistic democracy. 

None of us feel good about gun violence, but many (often family and friends) argue it’s not the guns, it’s the people who pull the trigger. How do you interact with that? 

Shane: I had a family member tell me that pencils don’t misspell words. What I would say is that we created these talking points and this rhetoric that is part of a culture war that is very unhelpful. 

For instance, I would say people kill people. People with guns can kill a lot of people. People with assault rifles can kill a whole lot of people. And that’s why this matters. Sin is everywhere. Every society has people who are sinful. Every society has people that are racist, that are prone to violence. What’s unique about America is that we’re allowing all people easy access to weapons and even military-style assault weapons like those used in Buffalo and Uvalde and so many of our mass shootings. I think it’s true that this is not only a policy problem – it’s a heart problem. You know people say it’s not a gun problem; it’s a heart problem, or it’s not a gun problem; it’s a sin problem. And I think they’re partly right. No law can change a racist heart. Martin Luther King had a powerful line. He said, “No law can make you love me, but it can make it harder for you to kill me.” 

I often compare it to cars. Cars aren’t designed to kill, but they can be deadly. So we do so many things to try to protect people, to protect life. You have to prove you can drive a car before you get a license. If you misuse your right to own a car, then you can lose your license. We have speed limits, drinking laws, texting laws, seatbelts, airbags – all of these things meant to protect lives. And guns are the exact opposite. It’s one of the most unevolved industries in our country.

Where are you finding hope and what’s the invitation for everyday folks seeking to live as Everyday Peacemakers on this issue in constructive ways? 

Shane: There are a lot of places I find hope. One of them is from my faith and in Jesus being a victim of violence who showed us another way – that love can overcome hatred, that life can conquer death. I’m also hopeful that 90 percent of Americans want to see change, and politicians are supposed to follow the people. I think change is going to happen, but it’s when we demand it.

James Madison, a father of the constitution, said that liberty can be a danger by the abuse of power, but liberty can also be a danger by the abuse of liberty. And that’s exactly what he named that’s happening – one person’s unregulated right to own however many and whatever guns they want at the cost of another person’s right to live are in collision. And we’ve got to choose. Are we going to protect guns or our children? Are Christians going to take the Sermon on the Mount as seriously as we take the second amendment? We literally have a higher authority for our morality and our lives than the Constitution of the United States, and that is Jesus and the Bible.


SHANE CLAIBORNE is a bestselling author, renowned activist, sought-after speaker, and self-proclaimed “recovering sinner.” He writes and speaks around the world about peacemaking, social justice, and Jesus, and is the author or coauthor of numerous books, including The Irresistible Revolution, Jesus for President, Executing Grace and Beating Guns. Follow him on Twitter (@shaneclaiborne), on Facebook (ShaneClaiborne), and at www.redletterchristians.org.

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